Governor says he will vote 'for' private school vouchers referendum

Governor says he will vote 'for' private school vouchers referendum

By Glen Warchol
The Salt Lake Tribune

Article Last Updated: 10/18/2007 09:11:00 AM MDT

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Jon Huntsman Jr. (Trent Nelson/The Salt Lake Tribune)

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Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. joined Republican leaders at a press conference Wednesday to call for school vouchers as a tool to meet Utah's rapidly growing student population.
Despite being surrounded by voucher enthusiasts, the governor stopped short of asking Utahns to vote for the measure.
Huntsman said he signed the law and he would vote "for" Referendum 1 on Nov. 6, but added, "Whatever you think is right, whatever you can justify, is the right answer for you."
The governor said he loved the public schools his own children attend and they would remain there.
But he emphasized vouchers are "very much pro-public education," because the proposal would hold public education harmless and leave the bulk of funding behind as voucher students moved on to private schools. "That's a pretty good deal."
The Republicans displayed population charts showing a wave of 160,000 new students will hit the schools over the next 10 years. Without educational funding innovations, such as vouchers, lawmakers will have no choice but to hike taxes, they said.
"How do we take care of this without taxing our citizens into oblivion and out of their houses?" asked Sen. Sheldon Killpack.

Oh-eight (R): The GOP no-shows

Posted: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 9:07 AM by Domenico Montanaro
Categories: Republicans, 2008

We've gotten some chatter from some GOP party leaders who were in attendance at last night's RNC fundraiser wondering why all the presidentials blew it off. One activist said if Romney had not stayed, it would have been a PR and "psychological" disaster. NBC/NJ's Erin McPike reports: In the same week that the GOP’s four first-tier presidential candidates tried to best each other with their Republican credentials, only Mitt Romney addressed the Republican National Committee’s “Presidential Trust” dinner at the National Building Museum Tuesday night.

RNC spokesman Dan Ronayne said the event was new for the party and called it “a chance for our donors to see all the candidates.” Those 710 donors, each of whom contributed at least $1,000, helped raise $5 million for the party. But the only two candidates they saw were Mitt Romney and Ron Paul. Romney spokesman Kevin Madden said after the event, “Showing up is half the job. Gov. Romney was grateful for the opportunity to address all the Republican activists who are helping to build the party.”

Although Ronayne said that all of the party’s candidates were invited, the RNC’s program had included five, with Rudy Giuliani, Fred Thompson and John McCain slated to join Romney and Paul. Giuliani spokeswoman Maria Comella explained via e-mail after the event that Giuliani “was not originally scheduled to speak at the dinner” and added that “the RNC incorrectly advised it.” No warnings were issued concerning Thompson’s appearance, but he also failed to address the dinner crowd. After the event, a representative from Thompson’s campaign stated that as the schedule of the event changed, Thompson was happy to speak at the reception prior to the dinner instead.

The Washington Post looks at the scores of Bush '04 donors who are sitting on the sidelines. "For months, Republicans have worried about the lack of energy displayed by their loyalists and donors, especially when compared with the enthusiasm of Democrats. Polls consistently show Democrats to be far more excited about their candidates than Republicans are with theirs.”

Also of note, the New York Times looks at the differences between the GOP candidates on global warming. "It is a near-unanimous recognition among the leaders of the threat posed by global warming. Within that camp, however, sharp divisions are developing. Senator John McCain of Arizona is calling for capping gas emissions linked to warming and higher fuel economy standards. Others, including Rudolph W. Giuliani and Mitt Romney, are refraining from advocating such limits and are instead emphasizing a push toward clean coal and other alternative energy sources.”

GIUILIANI: Per NBC/NJ's Carrie Dann, if it weren't for the newsy change of date, the big news of the day would be that Rudy Giuliani will be campaigning in the state -- for one day only! -- for the first time since mid-August. Mitt Romney is also in the eastern part of the state for the first time since the Q3 rush.

Before he leaves for Iowa today, Giuliani receives his first endorsement from a sitting governor. Texas' ambitious Republican Gov. Rick Perry (can someone say short list?) will sign up with Giuliani just before the mayor speaks before a fairly friendly Club for Growth audience.

As for yesterday, Giuliani’s getting good reviews for his appearance at the Republican Jewish Coalition. Jennifer Rubin notes, "the highlight of [Rudy's] speech was his recounting of his eviction of Yasser Arafat from Lincoln Center. With a jab at Mitt Romney, he remarked that he did not have time to ‘call the lawyers’ and see if on one hand he could stay, on the other he couldn’t or perhaps he could be moved to higher seating. Giuliani said bluntly: ‘I just made a decision. I am a leader.’” More: “This was the ‘A’ game from Giuliani -- funny, pugnacious and crystal clear about who the good and bad guys in the world are."

The New York Sun calls Giuliani the "emotional winner" at the Jewish forum. But Maureen Dowd wasn’t as impressed. Her op-ed of Giuliani’s appearance yesterday is “Rudy Roughs Up Arabs.”

Dowd also notes Giuliani saying this about Hillary Clinton’s experience: “‘Honestly, in most respects, I don’t know Hillary’s experience. She’s never run a city. She’s never run a state. She’s never run a business. She has never met a payroll. She has never been responsible for the safety and security of millions of people, much less even hundreds of people.’”

The Wall Street Journal has a smart piece noting that it's Giuliani's foreign policy stands that's allowing him to connect "with social and religious conservatives, constituencies where the former New York City mayor's support has been seen as weakest."

MCCAIN: He kept at it yesterday, citing his credibility on military issues and Iraq. “’You've got people running for President who haven't even been to it,’” McCain said of Iraq” per the New York Daily News.

Perry backing Giuliani disappoints conservatives

10/17/2007

By SUZANNE GAMBOA / Associated Press

Conservatives and gun rights advocates in Texas said they are disappointed and mystified by Gov. Rick Perry's endorsement Wednesday of GOP presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani.

Perry endorsed Giuliani, the former New York City mayor, at an economic conference of the Club For Growth, a conservative advocacy group. Unlike Perry, Giuliani has favored abortion rights and gun control.

"When I go to buy a pickup truck, if it's got one option on it that I'm not either particularly fond of or not looking for, doesn't mean I discard that pickup truck. I'm looking at the results and I think that's what Americans will coalesce. They'll look for the results," Perry said.

The Texas governor, who accompanied Giuliani on a campaign trip to Iowa later in the day, said, "Mayor Giuliani is not the enemy. Rudy Giuliani is a culture warrior."

Perry is the first major-state governor to endorse Giuliani. His endorsement comes just in time for a three-day "values voter summit" that begins Thursday by the Family Research Council, a religious conservative group. Giuliani and other GOP candidates plan to attend.

Perry was also to attend two later town-hall style meetings in Iowa, appearances apparently aimed at reassuring conservatives who might be leery of Giuliani because of his support of abortion rights and past stands on gay rights and gun control.

Perry's endorsement of Giuliani is a letdown for many Texas social conservatives and gun groups, who have considered Perry a reliable ally on opposing abortion and embryonic stem cell research and defending gun ownership rights.

Elizabeth Graham, director of Texas Right to Life, said Perry called her Tuesday to tell her of his planned endorsement. She said she urged him to wait.

She said she was baffled by the endorsement.

"I reminded Gov. Perry we worked so hard in Texas to pass legislation .... and those efforts will be stifled on the federal level by a pro-choice president," Graham said.

Texas land commissioner Jerry Patterson, who is a chairman of rival Fred Thompson's Texas campaign, said he was confused by Perry's endorsement.

"One of the most, if not the most, conservative governors in Texas history endorses a pro-choice, rabidly anti-Second Amendment former New York mayor, who as mayor endorsed the Democrat Mario Cuomo over the Republican George Pataki for governor of New York?

"What happened to conservative principles as the first measure of who to support for any office?," Patterson said in an e-mail.

Cathie Adams, president of the Texas Eagle Forum, said Perry has put his supporters in a quandary. She said Giuliani shouldn't assume Perry's endorsement brings with it conservative backing.

"Just because Gov. Perry supports Giuliani doesn't mean we are going to follow him off a cliff and that's how I see it, off a cliff," Adams said.

Perry suggested he expects most of the decision-making on abortion and other issues to come from the Supreme Court.

He said he asked Giuliani "what type of individual can I expect on the Supreme Court? He said, 'You can look for people like (Justices Antonin) Scalia, (John) Roberts and (Samuel) Alito.' Well let me tell you, I can live with that," Perry said.

But Graham said Perry not only nominated anti-abortion judges, but his policy advisers and many people in charge of state agencies also have anti-abortion views. She said her group does not trust Giuliani to do the same.

"I think there are moderate Republicans or pro-choice Republicans in any circle and I think fear of (Democratic candidate) Hillary (Clinton) has spooked moderate Republicans into supporting Rudy and into thinking that a true blue conservative, a Republican, can't beat Hillary. I think that's a false assumption," Graham said.

Christian conservatives have long been influential in the Republican Party. But they've been unhappy with the 2008 GOP presidential candidates.

Perry, now in his second full term, is seen in some circles as a possible vice presidential nominee. But for that he would have to overcome voters' "Texas fatigue" from President Bush's administration.

Perry has insisted he's not interested in going to Washington, but he hasn't ruled out accepting an offer to be a running mate.

Cal Jillson, a political science professor at Southern Methodist University, said Perry likely assumes he can win back conservatives who disagree with his endorsement. "This is an attempt to create options for his career," Jillson said.

He said Perry is "burned out in Texas politics." Perry won re-election with 39 percent of the vote and had a sometimes rocky legislative session this year.

Giuliani has collected about $4.8 million from Texas for his campaign, more than any other presidential candidate. He is helped in part by his role as a name partner in the Houston-based law firm Bracewell & Giuliani, which has a healthy list of energy-giant clients.

Perry seemed to want some stealth for his endorsement.

Although the Club For Growth issued a news release announcing Giuliani would receive a major endorsement, Perry's office did not issue any media releases until just before the event.

Perry refused to stop to answer questions and relied on security and others to block a reporter trying to ask questions. When the reporter shouted the questions at Perry, the aides grabbed the reporter and threatened her with jail.

A Perry spokesman didn't immediatly respond to a question about the incident, but said his office would comment later.

Associated Press Writer Kelley Shannon contributed to this report from Austin, Texas.

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Obama and Cheney discover hidden family ties 11 hours ago WASHINGTON (AFP) — They are political polar opposites, but for Vice President Dick Cheney and Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama, hidden family ties run deep, as they are distant cousins. The vice president's wife Lynne Cheney told MSNBC that she had uncovered the bizarre political twist while researching her new book, a memoir of growing up in the western state of Wyoming. "Dick and Barack Obama are eighth cousins ... isn't that an amazing thing?" Cheney said in the interview. "If you go back eight generations they have a common ancestor," Cheney said, adding they were both descended from a man that moved out west from Maryland. "This is such an amazing American story that one ancestor ... could be responsible down the family line for lives that have taken such different and varied paths as Dick's and Barack Obama." Obama's spokesman Bill Burton offered a tongue in cheek reply. "Every family has its black sheep," he told AFP. Obama often highlights his rich multicultural family heritage on the campaign trail -- his father was from Kenya and his mother was from Kansas.

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Clinton Eclipses Obama, Giuliani, Romney in Wall Street Money

Clinton Eclipses Obama, Giuliani, Romney in Wall Street Money

By Kristin Jensen and Julianna Goldman

Oct. 17 (Bloomberg) -- Hillary Clinton raised more money on Wall Street last quarter than Barack Obama, Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney combined.

Clinton beat Democratic presidential rival Obama in donations from employees of the top 10 underwriters of U.S. stock offerings, a reversal from previous quarters. The New York senator brought in $748,896 from the firms in July through September, compared with $177,456 for Obama, an Illinois senator.

The former first lady ran even further ahead of top Republicans, led by Giuliani, who brought in $149,925, and Romney, who raised $133,875, federal regulatory filings show.

Clinton's lead in public opinion polls and disciplined campaign is persuading Wall Street to invest in her, said Rogan Kersh, associate dean of New York University's Wagner School of Public Service. ``The reason they call it the smart money is because in the end they bet on the horse that wins,'' Kersh said.

Because of Clinton's strong fundraising, she and Obama widened their advantage in Wall Street cash, bringing in three times as much as the top two Republicans. In the second quarter, she and Obama raised almost twice as much as the top two Republicans -- Giuliani and Arizona Senator John McCain.

Campaign Performance

Clinton supporters say raising money became easier in recent months as she showed she can run a largely mistake-free campaign. Her debate performances and surge in the polls also helped, they said.

``The way she's campaigned has encouraged those who were on the sidelines to come forward and to make the commitment,'' said Clinton fundraiser Blair Effron, 45, co-founder of the New York financial advisory firm Centerview Partners and a former vice chairman at Zurich-based UBS AG, Europe's biggest bank.

Clinton's biggest third-quarter take came from Morgan Stanley, the world's second-largest securities firm. Chairman and Chief Executive Officer John Mack held an event for Clinton, 59, in July, helping bring her total donations from employees of the New York-based company to $210,970 in the quarter. Mack, 62, declined to comment yesterday through a spokeswoman.

The figures are based on employers listed by donors in reports filed with the U.S. Federal Election Commission this week; in some cases, the names are missing or incomplete.

Republicans

Once again during the quarter, the Democratic candidates as a group beat Republicans on Wall Street, bringing in $1.03 million from the top 10 stock underwriters compared with $437,442 for the Republicans.

Other Republicans were well behind Giuliani, the former New York mayor, and Romney, a former Massachusetts governor and founder of the Boston-based investment firm Bain Capital LLC. Former Tennessee Senator Fred Thompson, who joined the race last month, raised $81,950; McCain got $55,102.

Clinton's and Obama's take on Wall Street represents a switch from the second quarter, when Obama, 46, raised $739,579 and Clinton followed with $424,545. The top Republican recipients, Giuliani, 63, and McCain, 71, each received a little more than $330,000 from the same group of top banks in that quarter.

``You're seeing a market correction,'' said Dan Gerstein, an independent Democratic strategist based in New York. ``The promise of Obama was sort of like the tech start-up that got people very excited early on, but he really hasn't delivered the steak with the sizzle.''

Overall, Clinton raised $23.7 million for the primary elections in the third quarter; Obama brought in $20 million.

Donors

Obama's campaign focused on his support among a wider group of donors. For the year, he has received donations from 365,000 different people, his campaign said. The Clinton campaign has only released donors for two of its three quarters, for a total topping 160,000.

Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton yesterday pointed to grassroots support and said ``the smart money out there is on changing our country.''

Democratic strategist Steve McMahon said that while Wall Street ``behaves like a futures market,'' Obama still has a good shot at the nomination. ``Barack's future is going to be determined not on Wall Street, but on Main Street -- in small towns all across Iowa and New Hampshire and if he wins there, Wall Street doesn't matter,'' said McMahon, who isn't aligned with any campaign.

Private Equity

Employees at the top 10 hedge funds and private-equity firms, whose tax rates are under assault from lawmakers including Obama and Clinton, didn't give nearly as much to White House hopefuls. The leader in both groups was Christopher Dodd of Connecticut, a Democratic presidential candidate who is also chairman of the Senate Banking Committee.

Dodd, 63, took in $78,900 from the top 10 private-equity companies and top 10 hedge funds, compared with $50,573 for Clinton, the only rival to come close. The top Republican to raise money from private-equity firms was Romney, 60, with $13,500.

Dodd's Senate job also helped him raise more from top banks than former North Carolina Senator John Edwards, 54, who ranks third in national polls of Democratic presidential candidates. Edwards collected just $23,625 from the banks in the third quarter, compared with $54,150 for Dodd.

To contact the reporters on this story: Kristin Jensen in Washington at kjensen@bloomberg.net ; Julianna Goldman in Washington at jgoldman6@bloomberg.net

Last Updated: October 17, 2007 00:03 EDT

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Giuliani, Clinton Lead in Tri-State Area By The Associated Press – 7 hours ago THE RACE: The presidential primary for Republicans, Democrats in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut. THE NUMBERS - REPUBLICANS NEW YORK Rudy Giuliani, 45 percent Fred Thompson, 12 percent John McCain, 9 percent Mitt Romney, 7 percent Mike Huckabee, 1 percent Ron Paul, 1 percent NEW JERSEY Rudy Giuliani, 48 percent Fred Thompson, 12 percent John McCain, 12 percent Mitt Romney, 7 percent Ron Paul, 2 percent Sam Brownback, 1 percent Mike Huckabee, 1 percent Tom Tancredo, 1 percent CONNECTICUT Rudy Giuliani, 42 percent John McCain, 14 percent Fred Thompson, 10 percent Mitt Romney, 9 percent Ron Paul, 3 percent Mike Huckabee, 2 percent ___ THE NUMBERS - DEMOCRATS NEW YORK Hillary Rodham Clinton, 49 percent Barack Obama, 12 percent John Edwards, 11 percent Joe Biden, 2 percent Dennis Kucinich, 2 percent Bill Richardson, 2 percent Chris Dodd, 1 percent NEW JERSEY Hillary Rodham Clinton, 46 percent Barack Obama, 20 percent John Edwards, 9 percent Bill Richardson, 3 percent Joe Biden, 2 percent Dennis Kucinich, 2 percent Chris Dodd, 1 percent CONNECTICUT Hillary Rodham Clinton, 43 percent Barack Obama, 16 percent John Edwards, 8 percent Chris Dodd, 7 percent Joe Biden, 3 percent Bill Richardson, 2 percent Dennis Kucinich, 1 percent ___ OF INTEREST: New Yorkers Rudy Giuliani and Hillary Rodham Clinton hold commanding leads on their home turf and could sweep presidential primaries in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut on Feb. 5. With the Republicans' winner-take-all primary rules, Giuliani could win all 183 tri-state delegates, giving him 15 percent of the 1,228 he needs to secure the nomination. Because Democrats allocate primary votes proportionally, Barack Obama and John Edwards could win some tri-state delegates, but Clinton could win more than 250 of the 2,181 she'd need for the Democratic nomination. ___ The telephone poll, taken Oct. 9-15 by the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute, surveyed 1,063 New York voters with a sampling error margin of plus or minus 3 percentage points. The survey included 316 New York Republicans with a sampling error margin of plus or minus 5.5 percentage points and 468 Democrats with an error margin of plus or minus 4.5 percentage points. In New Jersey, 1,004 voters were surveyed with a sampling error margin of plus or minus 3 percentage points. The survey included 301 Republicans, with a sampling error margin of plus or minus 5.5 percentage points, and 343 Democrats, at plus or minus 5.5 percentage points. In Connecticut, 1,391 voters were polled with a sampling error margin of plus or minus 2.5 percentage points, including 325 Republicans, at plus or minus 5.5 percentage points, and 530 Democrats, at plus or minus 4.5 percentage points. COMPLETE RESULTS: http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x271.xml

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Texas Governor Endorses Giuliani

4 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Republican presidential hopeful Rudy Giuliani on Wednesday won the endorsement of Texas Gov. Rick Perry, despite their differences on abortion rights.

Perry, an abortion opponent, said his biggest concern had been Giuliani's support for abortion rights but that he was satisfied Giuliani would appoint judges who view the issue conservatively.

"The one (issue) that I wanted to hear him give me an answer and look me right in my eyes was that issue of who can I expect, what type of individual can I expect on the Supreme Court," Perry said at a news conference with Giuliani.

"He clearly said ... you can look for people like Scalia and Roberts and Alito. Let me tell you, I can live with that," Perry said, referring to conservative Supreme Court Justices Antonin Scalia and Samuel Alito and Chief Justice John Roberts.

Perry said when he buys a pickup truck, he doesn't rule it out simply because it has one option he doesn't like.

Giuliani, who is addressing social conservative voters this weekend in Washington, said he wants conservatives to focus on areas where he agrees with them.

"I'm not going to get every vote," he said. "The idea is going to be that there's enough we agree about and enough we're facing — foreign threats and domestic problems — that it may just be if they think about it, that I'm the best candidate."

"What I really want is a relationship in which we respect each other, even if we disagree," Giuliani said.

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Giuliani Connects With 'Morals' Voters on Security

Hard-Line Stances
Play Well With Base
Of Republican Party

By JAY SOLOMON
October 17, 2007; Page A9

WASHINGTON -- Republican presidential front-runner Rudy Giuliani is finding that tough foreign-policy stands are helping him connect with social and religious conservatives, constituencies where the former New York City mayor's support has been seen as weakest.

QUESTION OF THE DAY

• Vote: To what extent does a candidate's personal life factor into your choice for president?

Those conservatives, a bedrock of the party's base in recent elections, are unhappy with Mr. Giuliani's positions in support of abortion and gay rights, as well as his two divorces. But Mr. Giuliani's positioning himself as a tough leader in the fight against Islamist extremism and threats from Iran, and his staunch support for Israel, have kept many social conservatives in his corner despite their misgivings about his stands on domestic issues.

"I think that a lot of evangelical voters see abortion as a moral issue, but a lot of them also see defending Western civilization against this enemy as a moral issue," says Gary Bauer, a religious-conservative activist and 2000 Republican presidential hopeful. "Where the jury is out is once the voters understand where [Giuliani] is on both of those things, will the war still trump those social issues?"

Strong backing of Israel, in particular, is important to some religious conservatives, who have developed their own close bonds to the Jewish state and its oversight of Biblical lands.

This support was on display yesterday, when the candidate told a Republican Jewish Coalition gathering here that as president he would be deeply suspicious of land-for-peace talks with the Palestinians. He said neither Americans nor Israelis should negotiate with militant Islamic leaders and organizations that he believes are committed to destroying Western society.

He drew applause while recounting a 1995 episode when he ordered that the late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat be ejected from a concert for world leaders at Lincoln Center. "The reason I did it was that I knew from my own investigations of Arafat that he was a murderer and a terrorist," Mr. Giuliani said. "This whole idea of holding him on a morally equivalent plane to the prime minister of Israel...was a terrible, terrible mistake."

Recent polls suggest that Mr. Giuliani's hard-line positions are helping him make inroads with social and religious conservatives. A Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll conducted late last month found that 39% of people who identified themselves as evangelical Christians had a "somewhat positive" impression of Mr. Giuliani.

Republican candidate Fred Thompson, the former Tennessee senator who has campaigned as a Reagan-style conservative, registered a "very positive" impression among 26% of evangelicals. Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, whose Mormon faith has raised concerns among some conservative Christian voters, made a "somewhat positive" impression with 31% of those evangelicals polled.

Mr. Giuliani may be playing a risky political game by identifying so closely with the personalities and policies promoted by President Bush's administration. Polls show that the American population is increasingly disillusioned with the war in Iraq and that there is little support for a military strike against Iran. Mr. Giuliani's hard-line stance may succeed in helping him shore up support from the Republican base, but, if he is nominated, could undermine his prospects during the general election, analysts say.

"Surrounding yourself with these neoconservative voices isn't sustainable," said Steven Clemons, of the New America Foundation, a centrist Washington-based policy institution.

The former mayor has taken perhaps the hardest line among the presidential candidates on Iran. He has repeatedly stated his willingness to use military force to prevent Tehran from acquiring nuclear weapons. And he has described Iran's leadership as an irrational force with whom negotiations are probably hopeless.

"We need to isolate the terror-funding theocrats" in Tehran, Mr. Giuliani told the Republican Jewish Coalition. "You have to stand up to dictators, to tyrants and to terrorists" as "weakness invites attack."

Despite the Bush administration's troubles in Iraq, Mr. Giuliani's campaign is recruiting from neoconservative think tanks and publications that lobbied the White House to launch the 2003 invasion. Mr. Giuliani has courted them as allies in the fight against Islamist extremism, say his aides.

Last week, Mr. Giuliani's team named David Frum, the former Bush speechwriter, as a senior foreign-policy adviser. Mr. Frum helped coin the phrase "axis of evil" in describing the governments of Iran, Iraq and North Korea during President Bush's 2002 State of the Union speech.

Mr. Giuliani will seek to woo more conservative Christian voters when he speaks Friday at the Values Voter Summit in Washington, along with other major Republican candidates.

--Michael M. Phillips contributed to this article.

Write to Jay Solomon at jay.solomon@wsj.com

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Was McCain too nice to Lynch?

by Sarah Liebowitz Monitor staff
October 17. 2007 12:40AM
F irst, Mitt Romney was sparring with Rudy Giuliani about taxes and spending in New Hampshire. This week, Romney is in a tiff with John McCain about, of all things, New Hampshire Gov. John Lynch. Lynch made an appearance last weekend at a McCain campaign stop in Hopkinton, the governor's hometown, and the two men said nice things about each other. "Thank you for most of all the way that you have governed the state, in a bipartisan fashion," McCain told Lynch. Lynch returned the favor. "I have enormous respect and admiration for Sen. McCain and all he's done for all of us all over the country if not all over the world," the governor said. The Romney campaign seized on the Lynch-friendly remarks - which came a day after McCain said some not-so-friendly things about Romney - to question McCain's conservative bona fides. - Only John McCain would criticize a fellow Republican one day and then campaign with a Democrat the next," Jim Merrill, Romney's state director, said in a statement. "At a town hall meeting yesterday, McCain stood alongside the Democrat governor of New Hampshire, John Lynch, and said 'America needs more of what you've done here in the State of New Hampshire.' " McCain campaign chairman Peter Spaulding retorted that his candidate learned the value of bipartisanship from Ronald Reagan. "Obviously, Mitt Romney never learned that lesson because he admitted he was never part of the Reagan Revolution, going so far as to reject the Reagan legacy and run to the left of Ted Kennedy," Spaulding said. "It is beyond the pale that Mitt Romney would attack a fellow Republican for showing common decency and respect for the sitting governor of the state in which he is campaigning." It's hard to say if McCain or Romney got the best of this one. An anti-Lynch message is a hard sell in this state, but it might work with the hard-core conservatives Romney is counting on as a primary constituency. But if McCain can persuade independents to take Republican ballots, a nonpartisan, pro-Lynch message certainly can't hurt. Giuliani may have the most to gain from this particular slugfest, as two candidates who hope for breakout moments in New Hampshire tear each other up.

McCain attacks Bush policy

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Published: 10/16/2007

John McCain drew sharp distinctions between himself and President Bush in an address to the Republican Jewish Coalition.

The U.S. senator from Arizona, whose campaign is lagging, was among five Republicans addressing the RJC presidential forum on Tuesday.

His sharply critical rhetoric was a departure from the earlier part of his campaign, when he refrained from criticizing Bush administration policy. The strategy of backing an unpopular president as well as mismanagement nearly derailed McCain's campaign in the spring, although he has recovered somewhat.

McCain was especially critical of Bush's policy in Iraq, although he said the current "surge" policy adding troops on the ground is garnering results. He claimed some credit for the surge strategy, noting that when he started calling for additional troops in 2004, "I was criticized by Republicans because of my disloyalty."

McCain also implied another sharp rebuke to Bush, saying he did not trust Russian President Vladimir Putin when it came to seeking international assistance in isolating Iran until it ends its suspected nuclear weapons program.

"I looked into Putin's eyes and I saw three letters – a K, a G and a B," he said, referring to Putin's earlier career as a spy. Bush once famously said he looked into Putin's eyes and saw a good soul, and McCain's jibe drew scattered applause and some murmurs among a crowd that is fiercely loyal to Bush.

McCain said winning in Iraq was critical not just for U.S. interets but for Israel.

"The transforming struggle of the 21st century is our struggle against radical Islamic extremism," he said to applause.

Are Title Companies the Same?

I'm closing on a new home loan and I questioned the cost of the title company and it's insurance. So I have a question, do all Title companies charge the same? What about all these fees to close? How many are real, and what are just BS to pump up the profit for the transaction?

Mark

McCain-Romney love (slug)-fest: Round Two

by Jill Zuckman

The Republican spat continues.

What began with Mitt Romney jumping on Rudy Giuliani at the Republican debate in Detroit last week quickly expanded this weekend to John McCain taking aim at Mitt Romney for claiming to represent the "Republican wing of the Republican Party" a la Howard Dean and the Democratic Party.

Today, the love-fest showed no signs of abating.

Chuck Douglas, the former New Hampshire Republican congressman serving as McCain's vice chair, derided Romney's claim over the weekend that he made a political contribution 15 years ago to N.H. Democrat Dick Swett out of a personal friendship.

"As a Republican who ran against liberal Democrat Dick Swett, I can assure you that in 1992 Republicans wrote checks to defeat him; and those Republicans weren't voting for Paul Tsongas that year either,'' said Douglas, who lost his seat to Swett in a surprise upset in 1990.

Clinton takes New Hampshire Democrat presidential primary, says Marist Institute poll

Clinton takes New Hampshire Democrat presidential primary, says Marist Institute poll

Poughkeepsie -- Hillary Clinton has a wide lead over her Democratic rivals for the 2008 New Hampshire Democratic Presidential Primary, according to a Marist College Institute for Public Opinion poll released Sunday.

Forty-one percent of likely Democratic presidential primary voters support New York Senator Clinton followed by 20 percent for Senator Barack Obama. Former Senator John Edwards receives 11 percent. The other candidates, Governor Bill Richardson, Senator Joe Biden, Congressman Dennis Kucinich, Senator Chris Dodd, and former Senator Mike Gravel, all trail with single digit support.

The voters’ priorities in the New Hampshire Democratic primary are the war in Iraq, health care, and the economy outdistance other concerns.

On the Republican side, former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney edges the field of candidates vying for the Republican presidential nomination, according to the Poughkeepsie college poll.

Twenty-six percent of likely New Hampshire Republican Presidential Primary voters support Romney followed by 20 percent for former Mayor Rudy Giuliani, 17 percent for Senator John McCain, and 10 percent for Senator Fred Thompson. The remaining candidates, former Governor Mike Huckabee, Congressman Ron Paul, Congressman Duncan Hunter, Congressman Tom Tancredo, and Senator Sam Brownback, all follow with single digit support.

Security from terrorism tops the list of concerns on the minds of likely New Hampshire Republican Presidential Primary voters. Twenty-six percent of these voters say security from terrorism is the most important issue when deciding their vote for president. The poll reports that 18 percent cite the economy while 14 percent feel the war in Iraq is central to their choice for president. Twelve percent find illegal immigration to be the vital issue.

Mitt Romney spent $6 million on radio and television advertising

Romney outspends Giuliani on media in past quarter

BY TOM BRUNE |tom.brune@newsday.com

October 16, 2007

WASHINGTON - Seeking to catch national GOP presidential frontrunner Rudy Giuliani, Mitt Romney spent $6 million on radio and television advertising in the past three months, 12 times as much as Giuliani expended on media, campaign finance reports filed yesterday show.

Romney outspent all of his Republican rivals, sinking a total of $21 million into his campaign, compared with Giuliani's $13.3 million in expenses and newcomer Fred Thompson's $5.7 million, according to the reports to the Federal Election Commission.

As the primaries near with no GOP contender breaking away from the crowded field, candidates began ramping up their spending during the last quarter, even though they faced difficulty in raising new funds.

Clinton, Romney Lead in New Hampshire, New Poll Shows

Clinton, Romney Lead in New Hampshire, New Poll Shows (Update1)

By Demian McLean

Oct. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Senator Hillary Clinton leads among Democratic voters in New Hampshire, the state that traditionally holds the first U.S. presidential primaries, while Mitt Romney holds a narrow edge over his Republican rivals, a new poll shows.

Clinton, of New York, is backed by 41 percent of likely voters, compared with 20 percent for second-place Senator Barack Obama of Illinois, according to a poll by the Marist College Institute for Public Opinion. Former Senator John Edwards is in third place with 11 percent.

In the Republican race, former Massachusetts Governor Romney has support from 26 percent of Republicans likely to vote in the primary. That compares with 20 percent for his nearest competitor, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani. Senator John McCain of Arizona has 17 percent and former Senator Fred Thompson 10 percent.

No clean hands here, Teachers exposed for illegal acts

No clean hands here, Teachers exposed for illegal acts

Teachers, PTA, School Administrators, Unions, Government Officials, Federal Employees, Major Employers. What have all these groups have in common? They have allowed their computer’s, networks, email systems, and company time to defeat Referendum 1, and support the anti-voucher group Utahans’ for Public Schools, and the Utah Democratic Parties efforts to organize phone and email trees, distribute lawn signs, and other activities to defeat the voucher law.

Since Utahan’s for Public Schools has not provided any alternative on how to improve education here in Utah, including better ways to fund public education, one can only assume this issue really is not about education, but the continued monopoly of education dollars by the Teachers Unions.

The following link will allow access to data files of the above mentioned folks who have been caught in the personal use of computer systems that are either taxpayer paid, or paid for my their respective employers.

Notice even after warnings provided directly and articles in the paper that talk about this, there is still continued illegal use.

The link below provides access to snapshots and excel documentation of the sting operation.

Somebody’s got some splaining to do!

http://groups.google.com/group/the-jason-bourne-ultimatum

Mark Towner,

The Spyglass

Republican Rudy Giuliani spent $13 million

Giuliani Spends $13M in 3rd Quarter

By JIM KUHNHENN – 2 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Republican Rudy Giuliani spent $13 million between July and September, his biggest spending quarter yet as he positioned himself as his party's presidential front-runner.

Giuliani raised $11.4 million during the quarter, with about $10 million of it available to spend on his contest for the GOP nomination, according to a report filed Monday with the Federal Election commission. His campaign listed a total of $16.6 million cash on hand, $11.6 million available for the primaries.

All presidential candidates were required to file their third quarter reports with the FEC by midnight Monday.

Giuliani led the Republican field in fundraising this summer, according to early estimates provided by the campaigns, though his July-September total declined from his high during April-June.

Giuliani is ahead of the rest of the Republican candidates in national polls, but he lags behind former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney in the leadoff caucus state of Iowa. In New Hampshire, another important early voting state, polls show the race a virtual toss-up among Giuliani, Romney and John McCain. Fred Thompson, the "Law & Order" actor and former Tennessee senator, is also competitive with the top tier in state and national polls.

Giuliani's cash advantage over the rest of the field could give him an advantage in the remaining 90 days before voters make their choices in the early contests.

If vouchers lose, it could be for a long time similar legisation would be proposed

If vouchers lose, it could be for a long time

Hughes doubts similar legisation would be proposed

By Glen Warchol
The Salt Lake Tribune

Article Last Updated: 10/13/2007 01:58:12 PM MDT

Posted: 2:00 PM- DRAPER - A leader in Utah's push for educational vouchers told a town meeting Saturday that if the proposal fails in its Nov. 6 referendum, it's unlikely it will be revived in the near future.
"If this referendum fails," said Rep. Greg Hughes, R-Draper, chairman of the House Education Committee. "I don't think you'll see another bill like this. Maybe a pilot program."
Hughes, who was speaking at one of the so-called town meetings he has been leading around the state, again faced a tough room at Draper City Hall. Several opponents of the voucher program joined the crowd of about 30 citizens. Sen. Wayne Niederhauser, who also represents the area and supports vouchers, did not show for the meeting.
Hughes pointed out that if the proposal should win the vote, he doubted its opponents would as readily bow to "the people's voice."
"It will be challenged in court," he said.
Hughes said a defeat of vouchers that is driven primarily by Salt Lake City's high turnout for its heated mayoral election, would not necessarily indicate the idea is unpopular statewide.
"This state is not 60 percent Democratic," he said, referring to a recent poll that indicates 60 percent of voters say they would vote down vouchers.
But several at the meeting, including former Democratic House

---

member Trisha Beck, challenged Hughes's statement the bill is opposed primarily by Democrats. She said later that Salt Lake's turnout will likely have a marginal effect on the referendum. The important opposition is coming from Republicans, many of whom are public school teachers.

Michelle Johnson, a teacher in training, told Hughes she was worried about the quality of new private schools that he said would follow the vouchers. She asked Hughes if districts could find themselves trying to reabsorb students fleeing start-up private schools that failed financially or produced poor test scores.
"Potentially," Hughes said, which was greeted with laughter.
"You're going to have schools popping up everywhere, playing havoc with the public schools," Johnson said.
The districts will be changing the way they count students, Hughes said, and that should solve any funding problems over uncounted returning students.
Then, Hughes challenged his critics to come up with a solution to the state's problem of overcrowded, underfunded classrooms.
"If it's not vouchers - then what?" Hughes asked. "Is it a tax increase?"
Beck said the answer was increasing overall spending on public schools.
The legislature put a record cash infusion into the schools last year, but still remains at the bottom for per-pupil spending and teacher pay, Hughes said.
Other audience members suggested the economic growth that would accompany any population expansion would "self-fund" the larger student population.
But Hughes said tax income will never keep up with the cost of educating the influx of children.
"Vouchers will never be the silver bullet," Hughes said. The program only would cost about $12 million out of a $4 billion education budget. "If it fails, it was at least a reform worth trying."

Tommy Thompson endorsed his one-time GOP presidential rival Rudy Giuliani

Thompson Backs One-Time Rival Giuliani

By BRUCE SMITH – 1 day ago

CHARLESTON, S.C. (AP) — Tommy Thompson endorsed his one-time GOP presidential rival Rudy Giuliani on Friday, saying the former New York mayor can unite the nation — and beat Hillary Rodham Clinton. "I want a candidate who can lead and bring America together," Thompson said with Giuliani by his side in this early voting state.

"I want a candidate that's going to be able to stand up and be able to win the Republican primary and take on Hillary Clinton and win," added Thompson, the first former 2008 Republican candidate to make an endorsement.

Thompson, a former Wisconsin governor, served as secretary of Health and Human Services during President Bush's first term. In his presidential race, he struggled to raise money and gain support.

"I was a candidate for president of the United States, and I'm sure most of you didn't even know it," he said to laughter from a crowd of about 150.

Still, he said he got to know the other candidates during his brief run.

"Rudy Giuliani is a leader," Thompson said. "What I like about him is he is a reformer," he added, saying Giuliani cut welfare rolls, reduced taxes and reduced crime in New York.

The two don't agree on some issues, however. Giuliani supports abortion rights, for example.

"If in fact I have to wait around for the perfect candidate — I thought it was me and I lost — I'm going to have to wait another five years," Thompson said.

Giuliani said that while he was mayor he borrowed ideas Thompson used in Wisconsin.

"His endorsement means a great deal politically. His ideas mean a great deal substantively," Giuliani said.

The former mayor could use the Midwesterner's support to try to mollify skeptical Iowans and others worried about his moderate-to-liberal views on social issues.

But Thompson himself didn't have much support in Iowa, languishing in the single digits in polls.

Earlier in Columbia, Giuliani kept up his criticism of Democratic rival Clinton.

The New York senator has "never run a government. She's never run a state," Giuliani told several hundred homebuilders and real estate agents. "She's never run a business."

As if addressing Clinton, he said, "You've never met a payroll. You've never had the responsibility for the safety and security of the people on your shoulders." Of himself, he said, "I've run a lot of different things."

He also called for limits on lawsuits and cited a recent case in Washington in which a lawyer sought $54 million after a dry cleaner lost his pants.

The lawyer lost the lawsuit, but the family that owned the business sold it, citing loss of revenue and the emotional strain of defending the case, the family's attorney has said.

"You should have to pay for the damage that you do in bringing a frivolous and phony lawsuit. We've got to start creating an incentive so that people don't bring the frivolous lawsuits," Giuliani said. "Simple fact is we sue too much in the United States of America."

Associated Press writers Jim Davenport in Columbia, S.C., and Liz Sidoti in Washington contributed to this report.

Trolling for Suckers, Part VIII

Concern troll

A concern troll is a pseudonym created by a user whose point of view is opposed to the one his/her sockpuppet claims to hold. The concern troll posts in web forums devoted to its declared point of view (for example, Democrats or fans of the Prius), and attempts to sway the group's actions or opinions while claiming to share their goals but with some "concerns". The goal is to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt within the group. ^[9]

For example, in 2006 a top staffer for then-Congressman Charlie Bass (R-NH) was caught posing as a "concerned" supporter of Bass's opponent Democrat Paul Hodes on several liberal NH blogs, using the pseudonyms "IndieNH" or "IndyNH." "IndyNH" expressed concern that Democrats might just be wasting their time or money on Hodes, because Bass was unbeatable. ^[10] Bass ended up losing the election.

A real-world equivalent of a concern troll may been seen in the concept of RINOs and DINOs, where a person claims to be a supporter of a particular party's points of view, and then proceeds to more or less agree with the other side's arguments anyway.

An arena notorious for concern trolls is the boards of the various videogame platforms. For example a person may claim to be an avid supporter of the Nintendo and their Wii console, and yet proceed to say terrible things about almost all of the games and about where the company is going in the future. The troll will typically have the view that Nintendo are doing the wrong thing now, and that now would be a good time to buy a Playstation or Xbox console. They may also undermine Nintendo's credibility by acting as if to say: "I am Nintendo's number 1 fan... but let's be realistic they're not really that good compared to Sony or Microsoft". The troll will often also praise earlier Nintendo games, while having a very dim view of Nintendo's future. In reality this type of troll may not even own a Nintendo Wii or the previous consoles they are talking about, and are just looking to provoke a reaction from long-time Nintendo supporters who are hoping for Nintendo's success to continue. The troll may also hope to allow his/her own gaming platform to succeed better by using this smear campaign. If the troll came in just bashing the other gaming platform, they would have a clear motive if they didn't own the platform themselves and were "biased" against that company.

Trolling for Suckers, Part VII

Usage

The term troll is highly subjective. Some readers may characterize a post as trolling, while others may regard the same post as a legitimate contribution to the discussion, even if controversial. The term is often used to discredit an opposing position, or its proponent, by argument fallacy ad hominem.

Often, calling someone a troll makes assumptions about a writer's motives. Regardless of the circumstances, controversial posts may attract a particularly strong response from those unfamiliar with the robust dialogue found in some online, rather than physical, communities.

A sign warning not to "feed the trolls".

Experienced participants in online forums know that the most effective way to discourage a troll is usually to ignore him or her, because responding encourages a true troll to continue disruptive posts — hence the often-seen warning "Please do not feed the troll".

The word troll is often and easily (mis)used as an ad hominem attack against someone whose viewpoints and input cannot otherwise be silenced (i.e., via banning). Its successful use and misuse reveals much about how starkly different the world of technicians is compared to normal social and political discourse.

The term troll should be used with attention since it is a very easy way of undermining an opposing point of view. Sometimes, overly using the word "troll" may constitute trolling in itself.

Established forum users might all agree on one side of a message as being the universal truth; in which case a "troll" might just be some outsider adding an opposing message.

Trolling for Suckers, Part VI

Identities

In academic literature, the practice was first documented by Judith Donath (1999), who used several anecdotal examples from various Usenet newsgroups in her discussion. Donath's paper outlines the ambiguity of identity in a disembodied "virtual community":^[8]

In the physical world there is an inherent unity to the self, for the body provides a compelling and convenient definition of identity. The norm is: one body, one identity. ... The virtual world is different. It is composed of information rather than matter.

Given the inherit ambiguity of internet identity one might question of anyone can ever be called a troll as opposed to a role-player.

Donath provides a concise overview of identity deception games which trade on the confusion between physical and epistemic community:

Trolling is a game about identity deception, albeit one that is played without the consent of most of the players. The troll attempts to pass as a legitimate participant, sharing the group's common interests and concerns; the newsgroups members, if they are cognizant of trolls and other identity deceptions, attempt to both distinguish real from trolling postings, and upon judging a poster a troll, make the offending poster leave the group. Their success at the former depends on how well they — and the troll — understand identity cues; their success at the latter depends on whether the troll's enjoyment is sufficiently diminished or outweighed by the costs imposed by the group.

Trolls can be costly in several ways. A troll can disrupt the discussion on a newsgroup, disseminate bad advice, and damage the feeling of trust in the newsgroup community. Furthermore, in a group that has become sensitized to trolling — where the rate of deception is high — many honestly naïve questions may be quickly rejected as trollings. This can be quite off-putting to the new user who upon venturing a first posting is immediately bombarded with angry accusations. Even if the accusation is unfounded, being branded a troll is quite damaging to one's online reputation." (Donath, 1999, p. 45)[2]

The underground blogger group, the ZeitGhosts, started as a troll group, but eventually moved into more acceptable internet practices. They are responsible for starting the forwarding of hello.jpg and also the dancing baby.

Trolling for Suckers, Part V

Intent

Attributing intent to trolls is a very difficult issue since by its very nature to call someone a troll is to already assume an intent, that they are posting only to cause problems. So once a person is called a troll they have already been categorized by the speaker as someone with a certain intention.

Many people call others trolls, few call themselves trolls, so a troll is not a self-constructed identity but rather is a category constructed via the speech act of calling someone a troll. Perhaps the more interesting question is the motivation for labeling others as trolls. Individuals so labeled find it offensive. Useful advice for dealing with someone considered to be a troll is, rather than using that term, to ask them questions such as: "What is your intent?" or other questions relevant to the discussion rather than using the ad hominem label "troll."

Trolls can be existing members of a community that rarely post and often contribute no useful information to the thread, but instead make argumentative posts in an attempt to discredit another person, concentrating almost exclusively on facts irrelevant to the point of the conversation, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others. The key element under attack by a troll is known only to the troll.

A person who retaliates (using whatever means) as a result of a misunderstanding (or as a way of rebelling against the overzealous application of rules) is not a troll.^[7] A troll is a person who approaches a board with the specific intention of stirring things up, either as a goal in and of itself or as a means of attacking the board perhaps motivated by opposition to the ethos of the board. For example, a neo-Nazi approaching a Jewish forum with the intention of attacking the members, purely because the neo-Nazi knows the forum to contain Jewish members, will be considered a troll.

The general element, that determines whether a malicious user is a troll or not, is the level of indignant emotions present in the person, coupled with the person's history with the forum or group. An indignant user who has had a previous normal relationship with the group is not a troll, even if the user uses methods of attack that are characteristic of a troll attack.

A troll's main goal is usually to arouse anger and frustration among the message board's other participants, and will write whatever it takes to achieve this end. One popular trolling strategy is the practice of Winning by Losing. While the victim is trying to put forward solid and convincing facts to prove his position, the troll's only goal is to infuriate its prey. The troll takes (what it knows to be) a badly flawed, wholly illogical argument, and then vigorously defends it while mocking and insulting its prey. The troll looks like a complete fool, but this is all part of the plan. The victim becomes noticeably angry by trying to repeatedly explain the flaws of the troll's argument. Provoking this anger was the troll's one and only goal from the very beginning.

Trolling for Suckers, Part IV

Trolling in the 1990s

The most likely derivation of the word troll can be found in the phrase "trolling for newbies," popularized in the early 1990s in the Usenet group, alt.folklore.urban.^[4][5] Commonly, what is meant is a relatively gentle inside joke by veteran users, presenting questions or topics that had been so overdone that only a new user would respond to them earnestly. For example, a veteran of the group might make a post on the common misconception that glass flows over time. Long-time readers would both recognize the poster's name and know that the topic had been done to death already, but new subscribers to the group would not "get it" and respond. These types of trolls served as a Shibboleth to identify group insiders. This definition of trolling, considerably narrower than the modern understanding of the term, was considered a positive contribution.^[6][4] One of the most notorious AFU trollers, Snopes,^[4] went on to create his eponymous urban folklore website.

By the late 1990s, alt.folklore.urban had such heavy traffic and participation that trolling of this sort was frowned upon. Others expanded the term to include the practice of playing a seriously misinformed or deluded user, even in newsgroups where one was not a regular; these were often attempts at humor rather than provocation. In such contexts, the noun troll usually referred to an act of trolling, rather than to the author.

Recently, the word troll is also frequently used as a synonym for flamebait, even though the two words have distinct meanings.

Trolling for Suckers, Part III

Early history

Prior to DejaNews's archiving of Usenet, accounts of trolling were sketchy, there being little evidence to sort through. After that time, however, the huge archives were available for researchers. Perhaps the earliest, although poorly documented, case is the 1982-83 saga of Alex and Joan from the CompuServe forums. Lindsy Van Gelder, a reporter for Ms. magazine, documented the incident in 1985 in an article for her publication. Alex (in real life a shy 50-year-old male psychiatrist from New York) pretended to be a highly bombastic, anti-religious, post-car-accident, wheelchair-bound, mute woman named "Joan", "in order to better relate to his female patients". This went on for two years, and "Joan" had become a hugely detailed character, with an array of emotional relationships. These only began to fall apart after "Joan" coaxed an online friend of hers into an affair with Alex.

“

"Even those who barely knew Joan felt implicated — and somehow betrayed — by Alex's deception. Many of us on-line like to believe that we're a utopian community of the future, and Alex's experiment proved to us all that technology is no shield against deceit. We lost our innocence, if not our faith."[3]